I had a conversation with a young schoolteacher at a function one evening.
‘How are you enjoying teaching?’ I asked.
‘Oh, it’s OK…’ she said with a face that showed little enthusiasm.
‘How did you come to decide to be a teacher?’ I continued.
‘Oh well, when I was at school, we had to do job shadowing. I spent a week with a school- teacher and a week with a physiotherapist. I didn’t really like what the physiotherapist did, so I chose teaching…’
I see people spending more time agonising over which mobile phone to buy, what holiday to choose, and what fabric they want on the sofa. My head was screaming, ‘You mean with thousands of careers out there, you chose only between two?
You need more than two choices
This chapter is about actively researching careers by talking to real people who are doing work that may, possibly, perhaps, perchance, be right for you. And I think you need more than two.
You don’t have to be starting out in your career to research career options. What you do in one chapter of your life may not be what you choose to do in the next. Whether you are starting out, contemplating a career change, considering a new position in your organisation, looking for a new career after formal retirement, starting your own business or thinking about buying a franchise, each of them invites you to do some research before you leap. This is all about talking to real people who are already doing the work you may be interested in doing yourself. If you don’t like talking to people, you won’t enjoy this. But it could also change your life.
In the working world, there are more career options than we have had in all the history of work. Jobs we never imagined are being created continually. With so many needs in the world, we are spoilt for choice. However, too many choices can be as debilitating as having no choice at all, so having a system makes it fun rather than overwhelming. If doing research sounds dull, this may surprise you, since this can be one of the most energising phases of your career process.
Daniel Porot developed a helpful framework to divide the process of finding work into three phases. He called it the PIE model, but I’ll introduce the system to you by inviting you into our living room at home.[i]
Three Seats
We have a comfortable three-seater couch in front of the fireplace at home, perfectly positioned for the log fires we make throughout winter. The seats are positioned at right angles to the fireplace, so they have varying degrees of warmth.
The seat closest to the fire we’ll call the ‘Hot seat’. That’s the seat the dogs move into, without apparently moving at all, the moment you get up to put on the kettle. In career terms, the ‘Hot seat’ is when you are actively job-hunting, sitting in front of a potential employer who you hope is looking for someone just like you.
Then there is the ‘Middle seat’, which is still warm and cosy, particularly if you are lucky enough to have warm dogs or people on either side of you, but it’s not as hot as the seat alongside the fire. In career teams, the ‘Middle seat’ is talking to people who are doing the work you think you may be interested in doing yourself. It’s what is called informational interviewing in the industry.
Then there is the ‘Sociable seat’, furthest from the fire but still part of the conversation. In career teams, the ‘Sociable seat’ is talking to people about interests that have nothing to do with your career at all. If you love antiques but don’t want to be involved in that as a job, that conversation happens in the sociable seat on the couch.
We’ll start in the social seat and move into the warmer seats once we are part of the conversation.
The sociable seat
I was on a two-week Life/Work planning retreat in Bend, Oregon. One beautiful afternoon, we all headed into town and met at a large shady park where a splendid picnic was being prepared for us on return from our assignment. I remember thinking this was a kind of ‘afternoon off’ when John Webb, who was assisting with the programme, whispered to me ‘This is more important than it looks!’ And he was spot on.
Doing ‘Social seat’ interviews was one of the most powerful processes I have experienced. With my partner for the afternoon, we spoke with interior designers, owners of dog parlours and property agents. It was not only fun but hugely liberating. ‘Social seat’ conversations are not long (7 minutes, unless they hold you down), they are unannounced (could we chat to you for 7 minutes about the work you do?) and clearly positioned (we are not selling anything, we are just interested in – whatever – and want to ask you four questions about the work you do).
That afternoon in Bend changed so many things for me. I suddenly had the freedom to talk to anyone about things that interested me, to do more active research on topics that interested me, and to market what I do more easily. A friend told me about Martha Silvis, a lady in our neighbourhood who did the most superb therapeutic massage and reflexology. And so, with nothing interesting on my desk, I decided to walk down the road and do a ‘Social seat’ visit. There was no advertising outside her home, nothing to indicate she ran her practice there. And so, I knocked on the door and introduced myself.
‘Hello Martha, my name is Andrew. My friend Lidia referred me to you; she said you do fantastic healing work. Do you have five minutes to chat?’ ‘I do’, she said kindly. ‘How did you get into this kind of work?’ I asked. ‘Oh’, she said, ‘after I retired, my son one day suggested that as I was so good with my hands, people would often ask me to massage their neck or sort out an aching back and rub my father’s burning feet, and I should go and study that more formally.’ (Her qualifications are now proudly displayed on her wall. ‘What do you enjoy most about doing this work?’ I asked. ‘I love my work’ she said. ‘People are hugely stressed, and I provide healing for them; it’s wonderful, actually’. ‘What do you enjoy least about this work?’ I then asked. ‘Oh, I’m not keen on all the marketing and finance, but then I have a good husband who helps with that, and as you see, most people get to know about me by referral, like this.’ ‘Can you refer me to anyone else in this area that does similar work?’ I asked. ‘Yes, there is a lady across the road from the chemist who I think does more cosmetic work. I don’t know her personally, but you can say I told you about her. ’Do you have a business card for me, Martha?’ Yes, certainly, she offered.
And off I went.
It did take more than five minutes since we had such a nice conversation on her stoep. I have seen Martha many times as a client over the years and can vouch for her kindness and superb services. I met her family over time and now regard her as a special friend.
That’s the power of connecting with people, and you’ll meet some lovely people who are interesting and nurturing to know. That afternoon, I spoke to four other massage therapists: one who specialised in facial massage, one who dealt with sports injuries, someone who only worked with women and another who combined it with kinesiology. Not bad for an hour or two on a Tuesday afternoon.
But, importantly, I was not speaking to them because I wanted to be a massage therapist or a reflexologist. This was not a career conversation but a way to free myself up to connect with people, ask better questions, and discover that even as an introvert, conversations like this can be done with relative ease and will prepare you for the next phase, which is more career focused.
These ‘Social seat’ questions have served me well at many functions and networking evenings and made for some fascinating events. Standing around at a huge event, I might approach someone with an introductory line like: ‘What brings you to this event?’ ‘Oh, I am in Sustainability’ invites the first question, which is: ‘How did you get into this kind of work?’ I would have a genuinely interesting conversation and could ask for their business card before I moved on. People are generally very keen to give you their card (even if it’s electronically), so take it rather than walking around handing out yours. Have a few blank cards in your wallet in case they don’t have one.
If you have read the chapter on interests, you may remember that one of the exercises I did after people cracked open their interests was to get them to have a conversation with the person next to them. The instruction was to choose a non-career-related interest. They didn’t know it then, but they were having a ‘Social seat’ interview. Even the shy and retiring lose their inhibitions. They discover how interesting it is to hear other people talking about their interests with enthusiasm and how easy it is to talk about something that genuinely interests you!
Start today
I want to encourage you to try this. Anywhere. Today. If you are buying takeaways on your way home, while they are wrapping your fish and chips, you could ask:
‘Hello Manual, I’ve been coming here for years. How did you get into this kind of work?’ ‘Oh, we’ve had this fish shop for three generations already. When you’re old enough, your parents say there’s the till, and very soon, we all know what to do, and we love doing it. Salt and vinegar?
When we have the luxury of time in our workshops, I get the group to pair up and spend a few hours in a shopping mall doing some ‘Social seat’ interviews. I am continually amazed at the shift in energy, focus, and excitement from people who initially feel fearful, lack confidence, and are not keen to speak to strangers to enthusiastic and genuine engagement with others. With that kind of approach, you could find yourself heading in the right direction when looking for employment or a career change. It is about genuine interest and the right attitude. How many interviews should you do? As many as you like or enjoy or until you feel ready to move on. And moving on would mean doing ‘Middle seat’ conversations with people who actually do the work that interests them.
The purpose of the ‘Sociable Seat’ is not to job hunt or do serious research but simply to have some interesting and fun conversations to get going. You will overcome your own resistance to connecting with people you don’t know, and it will set you free to move closer to the fire.
The middle seat
The ‘Middle seat’ is about interviewing people who are doing work that interests you, no matter your age or stage of life. How many interviews should you do? In the industry, it’s called informational interviewing and is probably the most powerful but least utilised process in making career choices at any stage of life. Here, you become more focused on roles that interest you, and you are going to want a good spread of insights, so aim to do about forty interviews. If you chat with four people a day, it’s only ten days of work; you decide how you want to spread them out.
I see people who have been in careers they dislike for fifteen years or more and have done no more than two informational interviews, or they picked a career off a prospectus at the local college with no idea about what the job involved. You may be tempted to do just two interviews and choose between them, but you would be short-changing yourself with a limitation like this. Your goal is to find people who are excited, those who have good advice, and those who hate what they do and are prepared to tell you why. What they hate, you might love, so don’t only speak to those with stars in their eyes.
The more information you gather, the easier it will be to see what a career looks like from the inside. You may be eternally grateful before you invest many years of study in it. In business school groups, most of the students are professionals, i.e., doctors, accountants, engineers and so on. Even though they enjoy the field they work in, many dislike the actual work they do or the working conditions that go with it. Fortunately, there are many things you can do inside any field of work, so there are always options. Informational interviewing allows you to investigate other roles in a field and find opportunities that are more satisfying for you.
The ‘Middle seat’ uses the same questions as the ‘Social seat’ but adds three more questions in the middle, so it ends up looking like this.[ii] 1. How did you get into this kind of work (avoid job titles, since they are often arbitrary and you could get it wrong, so keep it open) 2. What do you enjoy most about the work you do? 3. What do you enjoy least about the work you do? Then a new question. 4. What are the trends in this field of work now? 5. Given those trends, what opportunities exist to work in this field? 6. What skills would I need if I wanted to do this work? Then back to base. 7. Who else can you refer me to that would be willing to talk to me?
This is not the opportunity (it never is) to ask people what they earn, but you could ask, ‘What could I expect to earn if I got into this field?’ so you get an income range to compare with other information you collect along the way. [iii]
These are not casual, unannounced meetings, but scheduled ones using your network and referrals from other people as far as you can. Ask for no more than 30 minutes, and don’t abuse it. Leave graciously unless they literally hold you down … or throw you out!
When I left school, I didn’t know any of this. I studied law because it was on the shortlist at school, but I gave it up as soon as possible. Later in life, when I considered leaving the formal workplace to start consulting, I knew better, and I had a family to support. My informational interviews took me all over the world. With our current technology, you can even do this without leaving your desk, but there is nothing to replace a real conversation with real people in real places.
Challenging preconceived ideas
Informational interviewing will also help challenge some of your preconceived ideas of what these jobs entail. There was one career that was absolutely off my career list: teaching. School didn’t blow my hair, and it still holds no appeal for me as a career. But then I discovered adult education, and I have spent many of my consulting hours teaching with enthusiasm and enjoyment. Who would have guessed?
My only accounting experience was my father, who worked in ledgers that had a distinctive smell I associated with a very dull career. In the workplace, I discovered there were great opportunities in the business and accounting fields that didn’t involve writing in green books. And as it turns out, my favourite work is around business. Who would have guessed?
You may have preconceived ideas about running your own business, becoming a chef, or becoming an actuary. Before you make assumptions, give it a miss because the person doing it is uninspired, judge a career based on what you’ve seen on TV, or give up because everyone in your life has a reason you shouldn’t do that, check it out.
The networking bonus
The process of talking to people about careers will help you build a helpful network of people in a field that interests you. Imagine if you did forty-two interviews, each with someone in a field or a selection of fields that interest you; that beats doing the ‘networking thing’ by attending every function, event, career day, or open day anywhere. You will meet people who are passionate about what they do and make some friends in the process. If you are polite and focused and send a thank you note to those who give you some of their time, you can connect with them again if you need more information.
This is a severe warning about informational interviewing. Don’t treat this as a job hunt, don’t ask for work, and don’t leave them with your CV in case a job comes up. This is not a job-hunting conversation; it’s a research conversation. And don’t lie to get in the door; they’ll end up wondering what else you have up your sleeve.
If you can’t decide…
If you can’t decide who to speak to, ask yourself, ‘If I could eject someone from their seat and take their job, whose job would that be? ‘ Then, explore who does that kind of work. Use books, the internet, or ask people you know.
You can start from where you are. You don’t need a huge network. You need to ask: ‘Who do I know that knows someone who knows someone who may know someone who works with wildlife?’ And take it from there. I was facilitating a group session, and someone insisted there was absolutely no one they knew who had a connection in the field of space exploration. So, we posed the question to a group of about 35 people. I even wondered how we might find someone, and then two hands went up. ‘We both know someone we can refer you to…’ they said. Let’s chat afterwards.
Will you find people that won’t talk to you or are unable to?’ Yes. Move on. Will you talk to people who hate the job you want to do? Yes, it will stare you in the face. Approaching people and asking for something may fill you with dread. I certainly don’t have time to see people who just thought it might be interesting to chat to me. So, I would avoid the line, ‘Hello, how are you?’ If it ever worked, sales call centres have killed it.
Rather, something like this:
‘Hi, Andrew. My friend Janice referred me to you and suggested that you might be willing to talk to me about a career in change management. I’m considering taking my coaching work to groups of people. I want to get some insight into whether that’s right for me, and I want to talk to about 40 people. I am not looking for a job, selling anything, or needing anything else from you. I wondered if we could schedule a conversation, either online or in person, for not more than 25 minutes.
Then don’t overstay your welcome unless they desperately want to chat more and say so; they often do. Two people talking about an area of mutual interest is a great date!
Thank you matters
Saying thank you to those who help you is more than nice to do. It does a lot more than that. It’s polite. Everyone you connect with and who has been kind enough to give you time, maybe even advice. It’s magic stuff, like sprinkling stardust. And because it’s not that common, that’s precisely why it is powerful. You can, of course, send a digital note, but I want to encourage you to use a real card, a real pen, and stamps (remember stamps?)
Your note is not a one-liner ‘Thanks for the chat, good luck with your life’ stuff, but includes at least three things.[iv] A courteous thank you for the time, for something you found interesting in the conversation, and for what you’ve done because of the conversation. Since you will have asked them for a referral, you may already have contacted the person they recommended and can say when you are seeing them. It importantly has your contact details on the back; this is, after all, important networking in a field that interests you. They may also want to connect with you again, so it works both ways. I believe they will have a better chance of remembering you if you’ve taken the time to send a note. I posted more notes in the past than I do now, but the number of valuable contacts and work I have had as a result continues to surprise me. And I know that no-one has my CV in their desk drawer, but they may have my card.
Try something
Franklin D. Roosevelt famously said: ‘Above all, try something.’ Sometimes, the only way to find it if something works is to give it a bash like we do. There is something to learn from whatever we try. You don’t have to get it right or make the perfect choice every time. In fact, waiting to make the perfect choice can hold you up indefinitely. In his book ‘The paradox of choice’, Barry Schwarz points out how too much choice can be disabling, whether it’s buying a pair shoes, making a financial investment or making a career choice. Too much choice can indeed be disabling. The process of investigating and trying on careers is not a dangerous sport; it’s a journey of investigation, learning and carpet weaving. So before you pull down the hatches waiting for your perfect job and passion to arrive, try something and do some great carpet weaving as you do.
You must be wondering what happened to the ‘Hot seat’ in all of this. Well, the hot seat is so important that it has its own chapter. We’ll deal with it separately when we get to the section on job hunting.
Your turn
What jobs or roles do you want to investigate?
How can use your network to be introduced?
Where will you start?
[i] Daniel Porot: The PIE model of career research
[ii] Daniel Porot: The PIE model of career research
[iii] Adapted from “What color is your parachute?”
[iv] A helpful structure I learned from John Webb, with generous thanks.